Ivan Bilokapić is a Vice Chairman of Europa Terra Nostra, an organization which advocates new European nationalism and a cooperation between European nationalists in the common struggle against globalism. He was born in Croatia where he studied economics, and later he went on to live and work abroad. He has been a Vice-Chairman of ETN from 2020, and he also hosts the ETN´s official podcast. We talked with him about the idea of European nationalism, the main principles of Europa Terra Nostra, the complicated and sometimes troublesome history of European nations, the reasons behind mass migrations, and about other relevant and current issues
As the Vice Chairman of Europa Terra Nostra, could you please give us a brief overview of this organization, and tell us, what are ETN`s main activities and what are your main goals?
Europa Terra Nostra was founded back in 2015 as a foundation and as an ideological, co-operative and idea-forging basis. ETN was a definitive “call to arms”, and an attempt of showing and signalling that the time for a pan-European nationalist co-operation has come. The motto was “Our enemies work on a global scale. They are very well connected and bound by numerous organisations, parties, inner EU Parliament fractions, and, of course, they are all financially backed”, which was more than enough reasons to try to consolidate the nationalist ranks in Europe. ETN had its office in Brussels and Berlin, it organised several successful conferences and seminars. The biggest and most significant gathering of ETN was in October of 2016 in Wismar, Germany. Conferences are a proven success, where all the guests bind and communicate the most. I think the most valuable thing that comes out of those conferences and meetings is not only the political segment, but the social segment. People meet each other, communicate, exchange ideas and contacts. Friendships are forged, and that is what the most valuable resource we conjure. Besides conferences, ETN found other ways to bring like-minded people together and offer even unpolitical activities, where people could learn new skills which, in the end, prove to be valuable in promoting our ideas, and present them in a more professional manner. We organised video-making workshops, where people learned to make professional promotional videos for social media. They learned together how to edit their recordings and upgrade their knowledge. We also organised several successful meetings with independent businessmen and businesswomen. They exchanged ideas, contacts, and real business co-operation and projects emerged from it. Europa Terra Nostra also expanded its activities by publishing books. This shows our interest in becoming a recognisable vault of nationalist ideas, where we also give the association an intellectual signature. Since early 2020, ETN, however, was re-branded, and our core interest grew beyond the borders of political parties. ETN became a fast-growing home for all nationalists around Europe, regardless if they are affiliated with a political party or not. In my opinion, ETN has successfully put itself on the map as a recognisable home for a modern, potent and promising pan-European nationalism, which is needed to secure our identity, our civilisation, our nation-states and our ethnic survival. The year 2020 was a very unusual and challenging year, where ETN did not have the opportunity to show its full potential by organising events and other planned activities, due to the COVID-19 restrictions and lockdowns. But we are hopeful, and we are thinking about future projects. We expand and grow steadily, and even though we could not organise anything significant this year, we still managed to attract new members. Our website offers new articles daily, and we also have an official podcast named Undertow. The internet and the content we publish seem to appeal with people who, even in this challenging time of isolation, still find their way to us.
How can individuals or other organizations who are sympathetic toward your cause join Europa Terra Nostra or support it?
Europa Terra Nostra opened it’s door to all European nationalists, regardless if they are affiliated with a political party or movement or not. We also expanded our reach outside Europe. We are aware that people of European origins living in North America or Australia or South America, for example, feel like they are a part of our European family, and they indeed are. We really extend our hand of friendship and co-operation to all Europeans, regardless if they live in the Old Continent or outside. This pan European policy has drawn to ETN people who are experts in different fields, but who were never party affiliated. So, we have people who went to university, who have their own projects, social media channels, etc., but view ETN as a base for promoting their ideas and enriching our organisation with their knowledge and experience. This also answers the question of what the benefits of a membership are. The friendships forged, the possibility of group travel, the possibility of learning, expanding your knowledge and meeting people from almost every European and White country, the sharing of experiences, the interesting speeches and the feeling that one is truly a part of something that could impact our present time, and, perhaps, kickstart social and political change in Europe, are more than enough to give people a sense that they are part of a growing pan-European family. Our growing membership base is a testimony to what we stand for and what we do.
What were your personal developments toward becoming a spokesman and an advocate for nationalism? Under which circumstances did you first become familiar with the nationalist or white identitarian ideas and what other authors, writers or philosophers had the biggest impact on you?
When I was only five years old the war in Croatia broke out. In 1991 Croatia declared its independence from Yugoslavia along with Slovenia, which led to a conflict with the rest of Yugoslavia and the rebel Serb forces in Croatia. Under such circumstances I have absorbed the meaning of national identity and nationalism from a very young age. Up until the end of the 90´s the school education and upbringing in Croatia was fairly patriotic and nationalist. The most valuable lesion that I took from that time is that basic rights for liberty and sovereignty of all peoples must be upheld. I think every nation deserves it´s independence and a chance to take their own destiny into their own hands. The Croatian struggle for independence which lasted over 900 years is a good example of that. Of course, there is a fine line between nationalist pride and chauvinism. Learning to know the differences and combat shallow and negative emotions with logic and developing a broader sense of your own identity as a part of a greater, western civilization is the key to personal growth and the growth of our fatherlands in the most positive way possible. I´m saying this because Croatian society is still haunted by the ghosts of war, a lot of families still remember their loved ones which they lost during the war and negative sentiment between Serbs and Croats still exist. Some people take those emotions to the extreme line of chauvinism and often irrational hatred on both sides, and that makes it difficult to start building up trust and a normal relationship between two neighboring countries.
I understand myself as a Croat and Croatian nationalist, but although I lived through the war myself and although I was a refugee, I don´t base my Croatian identity on hatred of Serbs. I understand both Croatia and Serbia as important links in a chain of a European family of nations.
Because of this destructive and negative situation between the two peoples and the negative sentiment that haunts other nations in Europe as well (Germans and Poles, Ukrainians and Russians, Hungarians and Romanians, Slovaks and Hungarians etc.) I have dedicated myself to speak out and show with my example how war trauma and hatred between two nations can be addressed in a civilized way and some painful problems from the past can be and should be spoken about in order to move on. I don´t expect that everyone agrees on everything 100%, but it´s time to sit down and resolve as much problems as we possibly can. As long such destructive and negative emotions between nationalists exist among Europeans, we will never be able to set up a bond of trust against those who want our countries to fall. This old, crude 19th century nationalism is old, overdue and it is time to elevate our national consciousness to a broader European and civilizational level. Each of our countries is a valuable part of a mosaic of European identity. If one of these pieces falls or breaks, the whole of Europe suffers.
Literature helped me in building up my current world view. Tomislav Sunic was and is a great inspiration, Allain de Benoist, Dragos Kalajic, Dominique Venner, Julius Evola, Oswald Spengler, Friedrich and Ernst Jünger, Jason Reza Jorjani, Heidegger, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Kant, Hegel, Hobbes, Montesquieu, Rousseau, the Edda, Iliad and Oddyssey etc. All of those reveal a vast spiritual playground of ideas and point the way of a broader sense of belonging and being – in our case a belonging to a great European civilization.
While Europa Terra Nostra advocates for the cooperation of various European nationalists, it seems that because of past conflicts and wars there is still a considerate amount of hatred and chauvinism among European nations. Some instances of the bad blood left by the past can be seen among Poles and Germans, Hungarians and Romanians, and of course between Serbs and Croats due to the bloody war caused by the breakup of Yugoslavia. How do you, as a Croatian nationalist, view this situation between Serbs and Croats ? Are there any attempts of reconciliation between Serbian and Croatian identitarians and nationalists in view of the much bigger threats that all of Europe is facing today, and do you have any contacts with some other nationalists from EX-YU countries?
As I´ve mentioned before, the relations between Croats and Serbs are tainted because of three armed conflicts in the past 100 years. Those are heavy wounds and scars that need time to heal and I am proud to say that I have met a number of Serbian nationalists who are exceptional people and who recognize the need of trying to establish at least a communication with their Croatian comrades. There are many issues and disputes and opened questions from the past, but that is exactly why ETN and myself as its spokesman are trying to bring on the same table, not only Serbs and Croats, but also other nationalists from countries which have also a difficult history. Germans and Poles for example, or Hungarians and Romanians, or Slovaks and Hungarians, or the Ukrainians and Russians. Communication is key if we want to move on and secure a better future for our homelands and their peoples. When it comes to the relations between Serbs and Croats, the current situation is the sole responsibility of the ruling elites in both countries who always seem to enjoy picking wounds because of cheap political points before elections. The politicians in Croatia are obsessed with a Serb conspiracy which wants to undermine Croatian society, while at the same time the Serbian political party which represents the Serbian minority of only 3% of the population sits in the government and their representatives don´t care about the Serbian minority itself. Instead, they impose their policies on the ruling party (the Christian democratic and liberal HDZ – Croatian Democratic Union) which adds even more fuel to the fire of those who see a Serbian conspiracy in everything. The truth is that both the HDZ and the Serbian minority representatives who together form the government in Croatia are all corrupt and come from the same, former communist backgrounds. Meanwhile, the country is in economic ruins with young people leaving Croatia in flocs. On the other hand you have Serbia where Croatia is still perceived as a threat to Serbdom and Serbs. There are always the questions of the atrocities which happened during WW2, also tensions always arise every August when Croatia celebrates the end of the independence war and commemorates the military operation “Storm” from 1995 where Croatian military broke the Serb rebellion which lasted from 1991 to 1995.
The political establishment in Serbia and Croatia is the same and they don´t make any effort in actually dealing with those questions, trying to find any answers for the issues that haunt both countries and they certainly don´t make any effort in making sure that these issues be resolved once for all so that both countries can build up a normal relationship of mutual trust, cooperation and respect. This is why it is on the nationalists of both countries to try and find the strengths and courage to sit down together and resolve these issues. When it comes to other countries with difficult history, Poles and Germans have done a lot and delegations of German nationalists visited Poland and these meetings have been a success. We also have Hungarian and Romanian comrades in the ranks of ETN and the communication is very good. So it is possible to move forward.
Europa Terra Nostra advocates the so-called “European nationalism”. How would you define this new form of “European nationalism”, and would you say that it’s in fact just another name for “White nationalism”?
A new European nationalism should have in its focus the mission of protecting, supporting and nurturing the ethnic and biological survival of Europeans. I think the term “white nationalism” is also outdated and unprecise. If any European country has a government which invests energy, time and resources into its own people, protecting them and putting their interest above abstract, post-modernist concepts of “individual rights” and if the nation is elevated above the interest of globalist capitalism and exploitation – such government is automatically representing a system on which the ethnic majority can rely on. Is it a “white nationalist” government then? One can define it as such, but European countries and peoples deserve governments and strong political initiatives to secure and protect the ethnic, biological, cultural and social foundations which make our countries European. A new European nationalism should evolve and outgrow the concepts of 19th century nationalism which has fell into the trap of perpetual conflict and war and it ravaged Europe up to the point where we are fearing for our own future. Nationalists in Europe have to leave the old nationalist concepts and cliches behind if they want to make significant and positive changes.
One of the things modern nationalism should abandon is this fairytale phantasy that if modern societies in Europe and the west abandon urbanization, return to the fields, countryside and farming that we would automatically benefit from it. This Pol Pot strategy is destructive and harmful to our cause as much as modernism, consumerism and rampant materialism in an urban setting.
Nationalists in Europe have to understand that at this point rising global powers such as China
are building their nationalism, their economic progress and the vision of China itself for the next two centuries entirely on technology. We can´t retreat to an 18th century romanticized farm life while other civilizations and countries are striving for space exploration, exploitation of resources from other planets and even colonization of other planets. If Europe wants to remain a global player and an emerging power it has to embrace technological development, start searching for economic and financial alternatives, abandoning globalism, setting up new values apart from living as a consumer, easily replaceable worker, a cog in a money making and soul-crushing machine – or as Pink Floyd said it best: “All in all, you´re just another brick in the wall” – We have to stop being bricks in the wall or cogs in a money making and devious, ruthless capitalist machine, and strive to be links in a chain which should transform Europe into a relevant and self-confident cultural and technological power house. Of course, Europe must liberate itself of the influence of Washington. The policies of the United States are all but positive for the European countries themselves. The United States has not been a positive, nor beneficial partner to Europe for at least the past 30 years. I will be bald enough to say that the policies of the United States have been destructive since the end of WW2.
What is your vision of a postliberal, identitarian and nationalist Europe? Are you more inclined towards a new European federation or an “Empire”, or would you rather support a new Europe of different ethnostates, which would cooperate to some extend among each other through various treaties and arrangements?
European future must revolve around equal partnership and cooperation among all European countries. Centralism is as much destructive as undefined, abstract and separate interests of bigger European powers which then fall into conflict. Both of those scenarios are not good for Europe. I believe the solution is somewhere in the middle. A Europe that would cooperate, but also a Europe where individual countries can build and manage their economy as they see fit. This is where the European Union is going to fail. The bigger, wealthier and economically developed countries are clearly not equal to smaller less developed countries like Croatia, Estonia, Slovenia, Slovakia etc. The EU expects every member state to follow the same economic rules, regulations and laws, while ignoring the obvious fact that not all European countries are equally big, populous, nor do they have the same resources nor possibilities. This is why the future of Europe depends on how much economic and political sovereignty European countries will have. It is of course difficult to predict how Europe will evolve in the future simply because there are so much factors that need to be considered. Demographic problems and demographic shifts, immigration, the policies and decisions of the United States, Russia, China, the international globalist market, as well as emerging technologies which can take us all into a completely unexpected course are all factors which need to be considered. Will Europe further integrate, will the EU reform into something more plausible or simply vanish, will there be further conflicts in Europe, or will Europe merge into a “empire” – we do not know. But in order to see future developments we first have to secure the biological identity of Europeans and redirect European interest towards new technologies and provide a building block of new political solutions to European problems.
Religion is another subject that can sometimes cause some disagreements or even hostilities in nationalist circles among the Christians of various denominations, or even more often between Christians and “Pagans”. What is the stance of ETN towards this question and towards religion in general? And what are your thoughts about Christianity and about the old European religions and beliefs?
The stance of ETN is that we respect the religious beliefs of our followers, members, friends and comrades no matter what church or God(s) they believe in. We also don´t focus on religious questions. The schism inside the nationalist circles between those who are faithful to the Christian faith and those who are perhaps atheists or polytheists is of course always present and should be addressed properly. I, myself was born and raised in Croatia which is a very catholic and conservative country. Today, I don´t consider myself to be a believer nor a catholic because I have grown dissatisfied with the Church as an organization and with the religious doctrines of Christianity which simply don´t align with my world views. I respect and try to respect people who see great importance in their Catholicism, or Christian orthodoxy or Protestantism. I don´t have any issues with them. However, the role of the Church(es) in Europe should be criticized. The Catholic Church along with the Evangelical Churches are organizations who actively play a destructive role when it comes to major social and political developments in Europe. The current Pope Francis has joined the globalists in turning Europe into a multicultural continent. In the United States, the Catholic Church is the loudest advocate for illegal migrants who come from Central and South America into the USA, and those people are, of course mostly Catholics. The Church is not concerned with the well being of the society, and they don´t care what color the “sheep” are. It´s important for them that the churches are full and that the congregation contributes financially for the benefit of the Church itself. The same problem is in Europe where churches are standing empty. They are being turned into mosques, theaters or skateboard halls. Christianity in the 21st century is a religion that is dying out among Europeans. Because the Church abandoned it´s core principles and offer the people absolutely nothing in terms of spiritual guidance nor does it provide answers in a world full of contradictions. That is why millions of Christians are leaving the Church in the West. Only in Germany alone, 500.000 people leave the Church (Evangelical and Catholic) per year in total.
People crave spirituality. They crave for something more than just empty psalms and stories of multiculturalism and limitless love. Many Europeans turn to the pre-Christian traditions of polytheism. We see that in countries across northern Europe, but also Greece, Italy, Russia and Ukraine. For a lot of people, pre-Christian polytheism offers perhaps not only an alternative for Christendom, but also a chance of revitalization of some traditions and customs which were long forgotten. This offers people to try and re-invent identities and customs and transcend them into something meaningful in our present time. The weak side of polytheism is that it is mainly just a cultural fad, something like a subculture for disaffected people who grew tired of the Church and polytheism offers a chance to manifest their rebellion against the current policies of the Church. Modern polytheism also has a weakness that it lacks theological and structural foundations. There are hundreds of “pagan” cults and many of them argue among themselves what is right and what is wrong. There is no clear structure. If pagans have the desire to bring back the old beliefs into the forefront, they have to organize serious religious concepts and structures.
Staying on the topic of religion for a bit more, what do you think of the current Pope Francis and his support of mass migrations, and even hidden sympathies towards LGBT movement? And how is this Pope accepted in Croatia, which is of course, like Slovenia, a Catholic country?
I do not consider myself a catholic any more so I don´t like to pass judgement on any catholic or Christian, but as far as the policies of the Vatican are concerned the policies of pope Francis are aligned perfectly with the liberal, globalist agenda and elites. The Catholic Church pushes as any other Church in Europe for mass migration, acceptance of liberal values, and relativization of the institution of the family by embracing the values and rights of sexual minorities. I would say that the average Croat who identifies as Catholic doesn´t approve of what the pope is doing, but there is also a lack of criticism and resistance to such kind of policies of the Vatican. I suppose the average Catholic in Europe feels left alone and perhaps even betrayed. Catholicism and Christianity are dying out in the west. Africa is the continent where Christianity is having a boom.
I dare to say that by the turn of this century, Europe will be largely atheist and Christians will be a minority. The reasons for that are plenty, but the behavior of the Vatican and people like Pope Francis are making sure to push people out of the Church itself. People want spiritualism, people want mysticism, and people want a spiritual experience when they go to Church or to mass. The Catholic Church is sterile and has no mysticism, nor does it provide a spiritual experience. I would say that going to Church today is like going to a Green Party meeting where the priests or pastors preach about the environment and human rights more than about God or spiritual matters.
Within the general nationalist movements we can find certain subcultures mostly focused around nationalist rock or metal musical genres such as “Rock against Communism”, etc. How do you view these subcultures? Do you think that overall they have a positive or a negative impact for our cause?
The communist author Antonio Gramsci has defined the question and importance of the culture struggle (Kulturkampf) brilliantly. If a political movement secures its influence in the cultural sphere, which incorporates not just media and entertainment, but the school system, academia, theater, music etc. then the political power will fall into the hands of that political group like a ripe apple from a tree. Nationalist subculture needs to redefine itself. And as far as I can tell, it has managed to do so quite a bit. With the rise of social media and Youtube and other platforms, nationalists have began to put out material of exceptional quality. If we are to change the political paradigm in our own favor, we have to concentrate on educating ourselves to the best of our ability. Acquire skills and knowledge which makes us indispensable. With high knowledge and skills we can do what the leftist revolutions of 1968 did. Take back the institutions for ourselves. That is how political and cultural struggle should be fought. It is also good to have a subcultural voice which promotes the ideas of nationalism. But it can´t be a driving force, nor a tool to our success. Not only do we have to grow intellectually, we have to be the best version of ourselves which we can possibly be. That means even our exterior – how we dress, how we talk, how we act and communicate. It all must be on a high level. You have to offer people the version of yourself where normal, everyday people thing to themselves: I want to be like that.
I was always a great music lover myself. Punk Rock, Metal and Rock music in general were always my go-to genres. Unfortunately, rock music is not even present in the mainstream anymore. It hasn´t been present in the media for at least ten years. Rock´n´roll was always a white, suburban, subcultural language and way of communication. Being white today is practically a crime, so I guess rock´n´roll as a white dominated art and music form was removed for good out of the mainstream focus. I haven’t seen a relevant or good rock band on TV for at least 15 years.
That is why subcultures like “Rock against Communism” are good to have as a counter to the left underground punk and rock scene, but the main focus of all nationalists should be getting a higher education, learning valuable skills. There is nothing more punk-rock than making it into the system and starting to change it from within. Also, nationalist music should also try to reinvent itself. Angry and highly politicized lyrics and aggressive music can only get you that far. Technology and the internet have given musicians the chance to experiment with so many tools and effects like never before. The people making music which promotes nationalism should embrace and use it. I personally would like to hear intelligent, complex and instrumentally invoking nationalist music with intelligent and playful lyrics. If some band like that exists, let me know.
What are your thoughts on the U.S. elections in 2020?
The recent elections in the United States were a disaster, and the results and the aftermath of the elections shown not only to the American people how the system is broken, but to the whole world. The democratic system is in a state of crisis, and it is questionable if it can be fixed? Donald Trump was surely not the best president, but he was the best America and the American people had.
His significance will be that he has coined the terms “deep state” or “fake news” – and both of them are to blame for the outcome of the American presidential elections. In a combined effort of the deep state, private financial sectors and corrupt media outlets, the American people were robbed of their fundamental right to vote and elect the candidate of their choice. I can say that Joe Biden was not the man the majority of Americans wanted in the White House. The finance sector, the media and the deep state represent the plutocratic and corrupt and failed capitalist system, and, of course, we reject and denounce all of that completely. Joe Bidens policies are obviously set to undo everything the Trump administration has done in the last five years. The biggest concern is what will Joe Biden and his cabinet do when it comes to geopolitical questions. US relations with Russia are growing more distant, China is the new emerging world super-power of the 21st century and the American political elite doesn´t know what to do. The economy of America is suffocating in debt and it is an ever growing concern if the system might collapse under the immense pressure. It is an interesting time to witness how things will progress, but in the end the American people have to decide for themselves and make the right choices and pick the path which the USA is going to take.
For the end, tell us what would be your advice to those who want to fight against mass migrations and globalism? What are the best tactics for modern day nationalists and identitarians in a world that is overwhelmingly hostile to them?
I have to say that a lot of nationalists and people on the right sometimes don´t see the forest through the trees. The issue with mass immigration has an ethnic and cultural component and this is a vast problem, but first and foremost, mass immigration is an economic and social question. Not that economic prosperity is more valuable than the cultural or ethnical of individual European countries, but It´s obvious that the immigrants are being driven towards Europe because of promises of economic benefit and progress. The core of this problem is that the majority of the migrants who venture into the journey to Europe, hoping for an Eldorado of social and economic package of benefits, including housing, prosperous jobs etc. End up desperate, trapped in some migrant camp for years or some social housing where ten people are crammed into small rooms. In such an environment, despair and the basic need for material necessities take over and those people go out feeling betrayed, left behind and cheated and commit crime, because the system doesn´t know what to do with them. They mostly don´t speak nor understand any European language. More than 75% of women from the Arab and African countries didn´t even conclude their basic, elementary education. Meaning we deal with people incapable of writing and reading. The main question is “que bono” – who benefits from this? Mass immigration is a useful tool for big corporations and capitalists to pick those people up and throw them into the labor market as cheap working force. Why pay a Slovenian, Croat, German, Frenchman, Swede or Spaniard 15€ per hour when you have someone who is driven by despair, willing to work for 6€ an hour? This is the case we have in Croatia right now. The greedy and corrupt private sector, along with the corrupt and incapable governments for the last 20 years have driven the average Croatian worker to despair. When Croatia entered the EU and it´s labor marked was open to us, more than 300.000 young, skilled and educated Croats left the country. All of a sudden, the question arose: Why don´t we have anyone who is willing to work? Because the payment was so low before Croatian accession into the EU and people were basically blackmailed by their bosses. They would threaten the people to fire them if they are not satisfied with the payment. Croatia is not exactly the type of country where you can switch from one job to the other in a short amount of time. After the EU accession, people quit and went to other countries to work for a decent pay. Now, those same capitalists in Croatia are begging the government to increase the import of cheap labor from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nepal, India etc. The people from those countries look at Croatia and think: This is the jackpot! But the Capitalists in Croatia think: Here comes the slave labor.
The issue of mass immigration is a question which must address the creation of modern slavery. This modern slavery is being wrapped, legalized and encouraged by the capitalist corporations, private held businesses and the liberal governments. The parole is: Those people need help, we need diversity, and we need people to keep our GDP up, because Europeans don´t have any children and we are all getting older, but at the same time no one looks at how these people are going to end up. Poor, desperate, cast into their ghettos where they will increase and radicalize their world view and where they will get small social benefits from the state with the majority of them never being able to accept, nor to integrate into our society in a functional and productive way. The vast majority of them will be easy replaceable, modern slave labor and the end result will be a devastating one because in such a way a conflicted and split society will emerge which will destabilize and endanger the social, cultural and ethnic well-being of all European countries. So the main point is, when addressing the migration issue – point out that mass migrations are in fact a slave creating system, legalized and backed by capitalists and liberal globalists, and the end results of those migrations will be a devastated society for us and for those who come to Europe, because there is no pot of gold waiting for them at the end of the rainbow – as many of those people think.